Wednesday 16 July 2014

Men dating older women

“If youth is wasted on the young, then what do the elder dispose of?  Is it hope, optimism, change or palpability?  Or are there some who view age as expertise, and see tomorrow as a brighter day than the one before?”

Similar to almost every aspect, choice and decision we make in life, contemplating intimate involvement with an older woman comes with advantages and disadvantages.  Sometimes it isn’t even contemplation, as the interaction and commencement of the relationship fell naturally into place.  One moment two people were just enjoying the single life, and the next moment they were both wondering why it had taken so long to collide into each other’s heart.  Of course this is the happy beginning, but real life doesn’t always have a happy ending.

There are various ways a man can become involved with an older woman.  It may have been simple, instant attraction on both parts, and one another’s age was merely a number.  It could be a conscious decision on either part - the woman perhaps entered a stage in her life when she needed reassurance of her beauty, and consequently she was motivated by her ego elevation requirement to date a younger guy.  His conscious thought could have been born out of his tiredness of immaturity, drama and high maintenance from previous younger girlfriends.  Then there are the subconscious evaluations they made, like her realizing she could dictate a younger, na├»ve and even desperate man, whilst he realized his once youthful appearance had deserted him, and an older women is his current benchmark attainability.  No matter how it happens, they both ended up in the same place.  The main question is - can it work?

It is important to clarify the parameters of a younger man and older woman relationship.  The easy scenario is one typical of a 30 year old man with a forty year old woman, or a 25 year old man meeting a woman ten years his senior.  However, imagine if a man in his late 20s had become familiar with dating younger women in their late teens or early 20s, and then he meets a woman only a couple of years older than him.  Whilst the age gap is not at all significant, his mental switch will need to be one of enormity.  In this case, to him it would seem like being with an older woman.  In fundamental terms, whilst age as a number isn’t irrelevant, it becomes less relevant.  It basically is dependent on the people involved, and their relative past experiences prior to the first encounter.

Advantage 1: Her maturity level

Whilst there are some older women who still naturally act, or choose to act, in a manner of a girl ten years younger than her defined age, generally speaking she will be at a mature mental level.  If a younger man has been accustomed to past relationships with younger women, or even women his own age, the likelihood is they will have come with the territory of this stage of life: this being immaturity, self-obsession, self-consciousness and over-emphasized drama that is often created to keep her fire burning.  This can be exhausting, and an experience free of these characteristic deficiencies will appear to be like a breath of fresh air.  For a while, at least, an enjoyable life is there for the taking.

Advantage 2: Conversation

In a follow on from the above, conversations with younger girlfriends that were highly dominated by derogatory comments towards others, her life and reality televisions programmes, have now been replaced with higher intellectual and intelligent content.  For once, everything isn’t about a man’s female partner, and if you’ve had a bad day at work, or you have an issue in your private life, it is refreshing to sit next to someone with a genuine, constructive and objective opinion, without compromising the comprehension of what you are going through.  For the first time in your life, a relationship can seem like “us” and not “her”.

Advantage 3: Her sexual experience

Age may result in a little less energy, but as a reward it brings knowledge and experience.  Nothing spells this out more clearly than the older women in the bedroom.  Where your previous more physically attractive girlfriend was basked in naked self consciousness, with her lying back for you to choreograph all the moves, this older woman can teach you new skills, not to mention new satisfactions.  She may not perform this every night, but at a slightly older age yourself, you appreciate the perennial phrase of “quality over quantity” like you never did before.

Advantage 4: Settled and financially secure

Depending on her situation, the financial stability and security may not always be of a positive nature, but by enlarge she will at least have her house in order in these terms.  From my experiences, older women are far more inclined to contribute in financial terms, a habit alien to many younger, and thus receptive natured women.  In a gender dynamic comparison, it is almost the same as an average looking beta male dating a beautiful girlfriend.  As he feels privileged to be in her company, he contributes the lion’s share of any expenses.  Although not as extreme, an older woman, whilst not revealing this fact, will acknowledge her fortunate roll of the dice in securing a younger man.  Consequently, the result is that she pays her way during those visits to cinemas, restaurants or weekends away.

Advantage 5: Less self-conscious

Sure, you still would like her to maximize her physical potential, but gone are the days of waiting for the younger girlfriend looking in the mirror for an hour, looking at her phone to see who has messaged her, and asking you every five minutes if her backside looks bigger than the day before.  An older woman rarely has this kind of disposable time to mess around, and in any case, she values other aspects of her life as much as her appearance.  It all simply forms a more relaxed environment, and this is free from the everyday high maintenance a younger woman, if not conducted in a firm mannered male process, will consistently deliver.

Disadvantage 1: Always thinking you could do better

Again, this attitude depends on the situation.  For example, if the younger man is grotesque and the older woman is relatively attractive, it would take a brave guy to have this higher sexual market value mindset.  Nevertheless, if he is a decent looking man, and he has fresh memories of younger female liaisons, it is only human to carry out thoughts of believing he could do better than this woman he wakes up with.  When this thought process arrives, usually after the honeymoon period, it is no coincidence young men in these situations return to the male nights out.  Once in view of the bevy of beautiful girls, temptations will always be just a dance away.

Disadvantage 2: More insecure

Although an older woman is less self-conscious, many women from an older age bracket can progressively become more insecure with many things in their lives.  A good analogy would be to compare this to a young sports star coming into the team. They have no fear because of their youth.  Their senior team mate, whilst more experienced, has memories of disappointments, mistakes and vulnerabilities.  Women are similar as so far they can start to question their worth as they get older.  As she doubts herself, she feels lower value than the average younger man she walks side by side with.  When this occurs, it can go one of two ways.  She either becomes further insecure and irritable that her apparent confidence is dwindling, or she becomes vainly aggressive and attempts to de-value her man to bring him down to her level.  In either case, the guy is usually left in a frustrated way, further promoting his compulsions to that of younger women.

Disadvantage 3: Sexual arousal

So she knows more in bed than her younger counterparts, but it would be rare for a man, unless he is lying, to actually be naturally aroused more by an older woman than one of many years younger.  It is only human nature running its course, and no different to a female cougar’s differing sexual threshold – this being variable arousal between a young hunk and her rich, but far older, husband.  Though the numbers are closer than previous generations, men are still more likely to pursue alternative sexual pleasures when faced with boredom from their partners.  If the two of them can maintain the bedroom fire burning, or he is a male of unbelievable high sex drive, then this outcome can be prevented.

Disadvantage 4: Past baggage

The older the woman, the more likely her train will arrive at the station with some magnitude of emotional baggage.  This could be a psychologically distressed ex-husband, or she could possess children from previous relationships.  Whilst many people will have, or know of, close friends who appear happy with their girlfriends with kids from the ghost of the past, it would take an ideal scenario for it not to possess some level of complexity.  A relationship between a man and woman brings about enough obstacles at the best of times, so throw in other items and it can only be harder to the task.  That said, a man will know about these barriers at an early stage, therefore he would be a foolish person to one day wake up all surprised that her past baggage is what brought it to an end.

A child from a previous relationship can limit a woman’s dating success significantly.  This decisive deficit can be bridged to some extent as she bears to the right side of high scale physical attractiveness, but the truth cannot be hidden that this predicament will repel the majority of men.  The higher calibre the man, the more likely this is to antagonize him.  On the other hand, a man in the same position could actually benefit in the dating world, especially if he has an array of other sexual market metrics to assist him.  At worst, the decline on his fortune in attracting women will be of absolute negligence.

Disadvantage 5: In a hurry to commit

This is often when a man meets a woman in her late 20s or early 30s, and she hasn’t been previously married or hasn’t yet birthed children.  Her friends have settled down, they appear happy, and they ridicule her single life.  Very few women take comfort in being the last apple hanging from the branch.  It makes them feel insignificant to life and lacking behind their peers.  It is always worth remembering that women, in general, place far more focus on their perceived external validation to the outside world than men.  One of the primary concerns relating to this conundrum is in not belonging to a man.  In this case, the younger guy needs to be aware that she will not hang around if she scents a lack of commitment on his agenda.  If she tells him this up front, the man has to make the decision based on happiness for all parties.  However, he should be wary of the minority of women who have their own plan and agenda, and two months after the first date they could be visiting the ultrasound unit.

I know of a few men who have become involved with the older woman in their life, and they have never looked back due to the happiness it brought.  Others haven’t been so fortunate, and an inevitable parting of the ways was the outcome.  It is for some, and it isn’t for others.

Some of the most physically attractive women, over and above any other age bracket, belong to those in their late 20s.  On very isolated occasions, this can also stretch to their early 30s.  With the added benefit of a higher sexual market value - in particular the way they have usually developed further persona and intelligence - these women really are from a high standard.  If a man meets one of these types then he should grab it with both hands, but it is pertinent to note these women are extremely rare.  They are even harder to find than handsome men with high sexual market value and predominant alpha traits.

These high calibre older women will usually seek out high status men who are not as good looking as they are.  The 15% rule will be typical – her being 15% more visually impressive than him.  However, there are isolated occasions a younger, but low status, good looking man may be deemed appealing to these women.  The female mind requires ego inflations from various aspects of life, and if she can foresee her sexual obsolescence approaching, yet she needs reassurance to confirm denial of this concern, a likely option is to spend intimate time with a younger handsome guy. 

Whilst fun in the short term, these dynamics seldom work out over a longer spell, as the sexual market eventually proceeds with its logical course of action.  As every day passes by, each party slowly returns to their habitual agenda.  The young man’s eyes will start to stray towards the many hot women from his own age range (or younger), as men generally place maximum emphasis on female youth and beauty within their feasible grasp.  The older attractive woman in this situation has her once positive emotions replaced by frustrated thoughts of his immaturity and lack of resource, and she returns to the natural process of hypergamy considerations – the process most women are accustomed to in finding men of higher status class, and as a usual consequence, those who are less physically attractive.

It is my firm belief that a younger woman dating an older man suits an alpha male type.  Likewise, an older woman by and large is an ideal match for a younger beta male.  You need only to analyze the likely day to day interaction - he will have more leeway from her, in spite of some of his annoying beta mannerisms.  This is only true because of her limited options in the sexual market in comparison to the majority of her younger female counterparts with similar metrics.  She will value and treasure his positive beta traits, like his caring, considerate and genuinely warm hearted ways, more than a younger woman would do so.  Basically, a beta male’s negative traits will be tolerated by an older woman and his positive traits will be appreciated more than they would be by women at the early stages of their dating lives.  What an older woman needs holds far more weight than the thoughts of the kind of man she would desire.  If she had less at stake, she could ultimately please herself that little bit more.


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  2. Hello Vi Nay, I really enjoy your blog. It's a unique departure from the red pill truisms that get repeated over and over again. This article struck a chord. I'm currently dating an older woman of 38 while i'm a young man of 27, a veritable poster child for the hypothetical situation you dismissed! Allow me to explain: See she looks about 30, never married, no kids, but a hottie in my eyes (though with a fair share of baggage and a wide sexual history). I'm quite handsome, in excellent shape, entering a career field that will lead to panty wetting prowess in about 5 years (airline pilot); the low status handsome man you alluded to i suspect.
    I have a certain reluctance to take things further with her because of many of the aforementioned reasons, like the growing SMV disparity, and yet, on a instinctual level i'm very attracted to her. I'm having trouble determining whether this is me living a fantasy or something with real potential as she is also in aviation and has a thirst for travel. We have something powerful i haven't experienced with other women (my age) and kept it alive long distance for half a year now. How should i approach this predicament ?, to grow beyond my beta tendencies while not throwing out something that may in fact be worthwhile?

    1. VitaminG,

      First of all, the touched on “baggage” you mention should be turned into a positive. In terms of her sexual history, providing she hasn’t been a perennial slut then I would view this as a benefit. She’ll know things that younger women will not be experienced to, and she should be very giving due to her appreciation of your youth and value. Only low confidence and jealous men become anxious of women with baggage, and when it does evolve into something that isn’t worth the hassle, they simply move on - in their/your case, to something younger.

      The first problem with what you say is that she looks 30. This is great in respect to her chronological age, however despite her being hot in your eyes, a 30 year old looking woman isn’t a 21 year old woman. All else equal, in my opinion you should be striking for a woman of 21 to 23.

      The second issue is that women have a first phase sudden physical ageing process that picks up speed from a certain point. I have to be honest, and I’ve never known of a woman (outside of fame) at 38 who looks 30, but I’ll take your word that she is one of the lucky few. Nevertheless, when this time does come (and I expect it to arrive very soon with her), you will see the defects on an almost weekly basis. I don’t take any joy out of sounding shallow, but harsh words at this stage can save heartache and financial implications down the line.

      I can understand where you’re coming from. A good friend of mine is 28 years old, 6ft 3”, above average facially looking, in slim but toned shape, decent income, and fairly well known in the local city due to his sports status. When I’ve been out with him on nights out, it is so pronounced how he only talks to women who are less physically attractive than his level (his overall looks level is 7.25/10, 7.5/10 if I’m being kind). Just from the brief description of yourself, I sense similarities between the two of you. He could definitely bag himself a top end cute woman or low end hot woman. Instead, he is with a 42 year old woman with 2 kids from a previous relationship. With my generous hat on she looks 3 to 4 years younger than her birth date, but she is just a run of the mill looking woman as you would expect for someone of her age. He is reluctant to talk about the visuals (when I prompt him about younger women), and instead he emphasizes her chilled demeanour, great personality and easy going attitude. This is fine, and as a relatively personable chap myself, I know how relaxed and enjoyable life can become with a woman of this kind.

    2. But non-visual positive attributes belonging to a woman can only take her so far. As your status and income grows, and if you stay in good shape and preserve your looks, make no mistake that if you can also enhance your attitude and confidence, the range of women (younger women) at your disposal will increase by many folds. Sure, some will be hot but dense bimbos, but others will be girlfriend material too. In this same timeframe, you will resent your now 43 year old female partner in holding you back. This may or may not be concurrent to cheating on her, or harbouring ambitions to do so.

      As I subscribed to in the post, the younger man-older woman dynamic does have a place and purpose in the sexual market, but logic suggests it should only be when a man is significantly uglier than the woman, in conjunction or isolation to him possessing hardly any other male desirable offerings that more wanted women (hotter and younger women) can demand. A strong example of this is with men attaining very low confidence. Most real life observations within these dynamics would back this logic up.

      All in all, this won’t end happily if you stay with her. I’m not saying finish with her right away, as if she does sexually excite you more than any other woman around – and I find it difficult to believe she does – and if she is way more enjoyable to be with from a companion perspective in comparison to women your age, you shouldn’t cut your nose to spike your face.

      But beware of it venturing too far into the longer term, as I can almost guarantee that you will not desire to be with her one day ahead. Also, beware of her potential manipulations. I may be speaking out of turn about her, but one too many friends of mine have been given the “you’re going to be a daddy” line when their girlfriends know they are on to a good thing.

      You dig?

    3. With regards to "the younger man-older woman dynamic does have a place and purpose in the sexual market"

      I have heard there is a Swiss Proverb:
      "You learn how to cook on old pans"

      and I believe it is one of those dual-meaning proverbs, like "old hen makes good broth"

      I also see it this way - she is hoping you fall in love with her and want to impregnate her by giving you good sex.

  3. I Dig. My gut is saying the same thing. She's not exactly asking for commitment and yet she is offering her monogamy. She's says i'm the 'total package' .As much as my beta aspect wants to embrace this offer and match it (out of fear no one else can compare (in bed)) , I'm just not thinking clearly. I appreciate the advice, because so many of my friends are clueless in these matters. I suppose i need a stronger frame in order to compartmentalize her as a source of enjoyment and growth during this phase in my life without becoming overly attached to the notion of us in an LTR because of the inevitable expiration date.
    You've got to admit, a well kept later 30's year old who was fine in her 20's has more appeal than a 22 yo without the attractive face and with an average or less body, the kind of women I feel are for the taking. Especially if the older one offers her sexuality without restraint.
    You've mentioned emotional psychology numerous times on this website and it seems to be a dominant theme. Do you have any recommended reading on this topic that is red pill slanted? I do have a desire to understand women better from this level because I'm naturally a very sensitive man myself and need to have emotional leverage in a relationship when i go for the hotter women, instead of succumbing to neediness and self-qualification out of habit. I sometimes can't help but act in this manner; though i'm physically impressive at 6'0" and with a good build and leaness, and a face of maybe 7, I've simply never had the attitude that women like that are looking for men like me, who are sensitive and in tune(I like to cook for example) and looking for a spiritual connection. I've had trouble integrating this aspect of my personality into the frame of my ambition and physicality and fashion and sense of humor without drying up girls. I don't want to have to treat women badly in order to bed them, but it does work...

    1. In response to your latter point of recommended reading, and without trying to toot my own horn, the best advice you will attain from emotional psychology - in relevance to women - is in the form of blogs like this one. Unless you are after general psychology literature to improve your confidence, attitude, body language, etc, there will be no on the market literature that is prudent to your needs. This is simply because the modern world is designed to cater for female egos and good feelings, and 99% of the time this consequently results in hiding the truth and reality. Why do you think novels and films are scripted this way...?

      Besides, I'd like to think this blog so far has covered a wide range of topics for you to ascertain forward thinking, and it will continue to do so in the foreseeable future. I assume you have already, but if not, check out "The Rational Male" and "Chateau Heartiste" blogs. These are the only blogs I consistently read, and in my opinion they cover the real life sexual differentials/dynamics in a similar manner to "Women' choices: men's divorces".

      Of course a well kept latter 30s woman has more appeal than an average 20s woman. This goes without saying. Always live for the present day, as the future is no guarantee. I should know. But I think you know my point is that you could (and should) be striving for someone younger than you.

      Yes, hot women who can connect with a sensitive man's feelings are few and far between. They are simply not designed to be this way once they realize their hotness is their greatest asset. But many younger cute women (7/10 to 7.75/10 looking) are more prone to be good listeners, have connecting feelings and possess empathetic nature in their bones. Nevertheless, from a general perspective you will need to toughen up and be far more care-free in respect to female feelings. Believe me, nearly every woman puts herself first before anyone of anything else.

      I can only advise based on what I have seen in so many couple over abundant years. The choice can only be made by you. What I do sense is, if you stay with this woman, you will be that all so common nice guy who thinks he can do better but is afraid to let her down.