“One gram of brain weighs more than a kilo of stupidity.”
To use a metaphor, this post offers guidance for men who could form oblivious guilt in being a canary in a coal mine. It is advanced warning to guys in their late teens or early 20s who are currently with girlfriends of similar age. Older men, if honest, will be in agreement come the end of reading.
I tend to think that many readers of this blog will be familiar with Rollo Tomassi’s Sexual Market Value (SMV) graph. To date, and in my opinion, it offers the most entertaining, informative and, more importantly, furthest degree of accuracy and validity in terms of how female and male projected attraction onto the opposite sex is fluctuated by their respective age. In summary, women peak at 23 and men do likewise at 38, and they hit a compromising level at around 30. This is Tomassi’s view on how it works. To cynics and pie-sky chasers, they could claim there is no evidence to back this up. To people living in the real world, they will point to what they see with their own two eyes.
Not that the SMV is without a couple of restrictions, and Rollo himself has made reference to this. In my view, the biggest caveat would be that the male peak value age of 38 is with consideration to men who have looked after their physical look. Whilst physical attractiveness is not close to being a deal breaker for men to attract women as it is in the inverse situation, it is still important. The vast majority of 23 year old women would, in an ideal world, prefer to be with a 28 year old man than a 38 year old man, if all else was equal.
Whilst not a huge issue in the modern day, there is still a small stigma attached to a woman dating a man 15 years her senior. So although the 38 year old man could be potentially earning in excess of $40k/annum against his younger self of 10 years ago, this factor, more often than not, would not be enough to attract a very cute or hot woman (in relativity to his own look) if he sports a high waistline, double chin, baggy eyes and grey hair. However, if he still looks good, the pull of wealth and status will act as a 7th gear to surpass his younger male competition. Although I’m not a fan of celebrity examples for “real world” illustration in the sexual market, Enrique Iglesias shows how a man in his late 30s can look just as eye catching, if not more impressive, than he did in his 20s.
But I take on a slightly different route on all this, in looking upon the possible implications of men dating women of age parity. From first-hand experience, and from how I see older men now emote with their respective female partners, a forthcoming underwhelmed portrait on a man’s face is a likely consequence if he chose to settle down with a woman of similar age.
18 to 22: When they met
Many young men will meet their loved ones during the University years or post further education, and this will typically be from 18 to 22. It all makes sense. Men of this age, who were losing out on girls their own age a few years previous due to general female puberty and maturity being a couple of years advanced, are now mentally and physically mature enough for these young women to no longer feel the need to look for older male takers like they did through high school/sixth form. There may be a year or two gap (usually the girl being the younger), but no great disparity is seen in any respect. The physical look, mental wavelength, values and plan of life is pretty much on a par.
I’ll mention once more: they both, with negligible allowances and exceptions acknowledged, physically look their actual age. In other words, the ageing notifications will not show any imbalance on either side. Also, the majority of women in their early 20s have not reached the female driven thought mechanism to locate a wealthy and high occupational status man who can provide for her future. It is, mainly, about the way her heart beats.
This isn’t to say that all women go for the best looking man they can possibly attain at this age (it’s actually no more than half of them who will), but a man’s physical attractiveness plays a major part in the whole selection process. Even the 50% and more of women who do consciously “date down” with a lesser looking boyfriend are driven from motivations by how he makes her feel and what he does for her – hence his comparative ugliness to boost her ego, and his appreciation of her existence – as opposed to his financial providing capabilities.
23 to 25: Post University / Next life step conundrums
From a physical looks perspective, everything during this phase is hunky dory. Although a touch of boredom will be an inevitable consequence on a man’s part if he is still with the woman he met in the previous timeframe, there are only negligible signs of his female partner’s declining beauty. In fact at this phase, on the basis she has lived a healthy lifestyle, he should have seen her grow into a beautiful woman – relative to the up and down glamorous scale she will go through in her entire life.
Nevertheless, as they reach 25 a pivotal stage encounters both of their worlds. They both will have reached the same crossroads with alternative turns being contemplated. The woman, with dual residence, marriage and kids sitting firmly on her impending mind, will be living with this concern simultaneous to slowly being passed in the streets by younger (therefore likely hotter) female rivals. She won’t be ignorant to her boyfriend taking crafty glances at them more than he once did. As a pre-selected and physically developing man, rest assured that these younger cuties will be looking at him too. In the same period, the man in this dynamic will be juggling with thoughts of losing independence and no longer having the flexibility to fornicate, if the temptation was too much to resist.
26 to 30: Does he or doesn’t he?
A woman who is happy with her man will now be rowing that little bit harder to settle down. Needless to say, a woman who isn’t happy with her man would have left him by now due to the clock ticking that bit quicker in locating a suitable future husband.
Tomassi’s SMV curve indicates a meeting of sexual market value equality at 30 years of age, but my personal take on this is that it occurs, in a general context, a couple of years earlier. The only reason I state this is because most men will physically look their best around their 28th birthday, whilst women will be on a slow but noticeable decline down at this same point. All things equal, an unmarried man in a relationship with a woman he was with at 21 should be in a far more powerful position at 28. In terms of choosing to track down higher calibre members of the opposite sex than they currently hold on to, the man at 28 should, in theory, be looking through a far more optimistic telescope. This isn’t to say he will have more options in numbers per se, as the woman will still have the usual supplicated and desperate nice guys following her, but his options of younger and hotter women are at an all time high.
As far as the physical analysis side of things goes, this is a difficult time for a man. As stated above, most men will aesthetically look their best during the late 20s, and this is concurrent to escalating pay cheques and promotions at work. From my observations, a man who is born with run of the mill looks, genetics and intelligence will never be seen as more appealing to women of all ages than in his late 20s to early 30s. Younger women find this incredibly attractive, and he will pick up on this. Although he will love his older girlfriend, human nature dictates to manifest a predilection to recall those fresh times during the college days. I would expect there isn’t a man in this position who hasn’t closed his eyes in hope that he could spend the days with his loyal, faithful, personable and empathetic girlfriend, yet the nights with the younger interlopers who have been eyeing him up in the bar or gym.
31 onwards: Decision time
Unless it is a rare woman who knows an uncommitted long term life with a high calibre man is an existence worth far more than portraying a diamond, wife status and motherhood, she won’t be sticking around any longer. It’s all been said before, so I don’t need to elaborate on why women crave to speed the committal path up post 30 years of age.
As female sexual compulsions are every honest man’s daily thoughts, it is an unfortunate course of events that whilst he is near on his pinnacle look in conjunction to being desired by other ladies, his female partner is no longer the fresh thing that passed him by 10 years earlier. Sure, she still may look decent, but the man in this bond will start to think he could do better. The choice is down to him, but sometimes the biggest regrets are ascertained from what you don’t do.
Some men will take on a tail wagging the dog proverbial mindset when they reach decision time. The bigger part of their mind acts as a voice within telling them something isn’t quite right, but then many will mitigate this itching feeling with words of “the grass is always greener on the other side”, “personality and love conquers all”, or “a younger girl would be too high maintenance”. As I say, the decision can only be made by the man sat inside his own bubble, but one thing I can assure anyone is that if you have doubts over being with a woman after a significant amount of time together, you never will be ready. Simply put: if it isn’t right for you today, it sure won’t be right for you tomorrow. Do the right thing, and let her move on. It will be the best for all parties involved.
I may be biased with regards to this topic. I have dated and been in relationships with younger women for the better part of my adult life, and my father was 8 years older than my mother. I can also relate to being that guy who fell in love for the first time during University days to a woman of the same age. She was the nearest thing possible to perfect girlfriend material, but 4 years on and there were noticeable physical attractiveness movements from start to finish (mine escalating whilst she, at best, stayed the same), interests from younger women, and polar opposite commitment requirements come the day we called it quits.
I cannot track down the actual source, but a few years ago I came across a formula for the ideal age gap for men and women to produce a successful relationship. It was a simple equation that divided a man’s age by 2, then to add on 7. Therefore:
- A man of 30 with a woman of 22
- A man of 40 with a woman of 27
- A man of 50 with a woman of 32
This post is predominantly analyzing from a physical viewing perspective alone, whilst the formula considered many criteria. We all know that the more a man can offer – mainly money and status – the easier it is for him to pull a younger bird. I would re-iterate once more that, for it not to look like the vision of a creepy old man with a younger trophy wife, it is most critical for a man to have looked after himself and be blessed with kind genetics. Some 50 year old men can look a few years younger, but then women rarely look much younger than their birth certificate proof once they pass 30.
I wouldn’t necessarily fully adhere with this theoretical formula. I see it as a little stretched as the man’s age ascends. But one aspect that realms true is how women, by and large, show defects at an earlier age and at a faster rate than men. With this in mind, the formula is more relevant for a man who looks after his welfare to bring about a viewing that looks much younger than his chronological number indicates.
But when all is said and done, and unless I’ve missed something along the way, the true substance that a successful relationship is measured on is if it stays together on a happy basis. If a woman and man meet at respective ages where they will eventually collide in pronounced physical slide at a similar date – on average, the man will be 45 and the woman roughly 35 - I would expect this would, in theory, keep both parties with a smile on their face.
I would add that there are 3 scenarios where a long term relationship could work where both the woman and man meet at the same age:
- A man considerably less physically attractive in relative terms than his female partner. This physical evolution concept would never reach a stage where he is better looking than her, thus reducing the temptations for him to stray in the future.
- Women with very kind physical genetics. Naturally, she will age at a similar rate to her better half, and his appreciation of her beauty remains higher than that of a woman with the “normal” ageing process rate.
- Men who are so sex hungry that they can become aroused just on the thought of a vagina. Believe me, there are some men out there who epitomize this low arousal threshold requirement. How she looks is a mere formality with these men. If this is the fortunate (misfortunate?) situation for a man, and this format can last indefinitely, there becomes little reason to look elsewhere.
The information as subscribed to above will go a long way to explain why the majority of women consciously select less physically attractive men than their own self-assessed likewise grade. They will know their maximized beauty will not last forever, but they will still hold desires to be more eye catching than the man they are with. Call it a contingency plan, if you will. The unavoidable observation of 10% to 15% leverage is the usual occurrence with regards to a woman being better looking than her male partner, but even this differential at a young age may not be enough comfort zone for her crystal ball visions of 10 to 15 years ahead. As although she will still likely be marginally more physically attractive than her man on this future date, his heightened value – due to increased job power, occupational status, earnings and charisma – may lead him to believe that he can now do better than the woman he once bizarrely idolized back then.
Acknowledgements and further reading
This stuck out for me "Unless it is a rare woman who knows an uncommitted long term life with a high calibre man is an existence worth far more than portraying a diamond, wife status and motherhood, she won’t be sticking around any longer." I've always said if women would simply let go of this obsession with rings and wife status, we'd all be happier. Marriage can come at some point but being with someone in an LTR already says there's love and commitment. The legal contract doesn't make someone love you more. I would suggest making marriage something to do much later in life with someone you've stayed with because you truly want to be around them and enjoy their company. Treat it as a celebration of a life together that was never forced by the law or church.ReplyDelete
Agree with the poster above me, but as an attractive 28 year old woman, you should stop selling men pipe dreams. 40 is old. No woman my age wants a 40 year old man, get real lmao. I even have a friend who was pursued by a 40-year-old ex rock star when she was 27 amd turned him down because he couldn't turn her on.ReplyDelete
Oh, and I bet she told you that.... not the slightest chance of her fibbing simultaneous to self-raising her own importance that an "ex rock star" pursued her? And on the basis he had lived many years in the rock and roll lifestyle - lack of sleep, drugs, alcohol, etc - yes, he probably did look like an ageing, hagged and wrinkly old man, even beyond his own birth date.ReplyDelete
To be a 28 year old woman who can feasibly secure a top quality (and I mean top quality) man her own age, she needs to be absolutely top end hotness. Unfortunately, nearly all women this age will be less physically attractive than their former self of 5 or so years ago. A 28 year old high calibre man can easily demand and secure this 21 year old hottie, just like a top quality 40 year old man can do likewise with a 28 year old woman, or younger for that matter. Is a woman really going to turn down a man with abundant high end qualities because he is 12 years older than her? Guys - watch a woman of this type to say "yes" to the question, but watch what she does to ascertain the truth.
However, you do kind of hit on a point. As I suspect you are like most women, your ego takes you to desires in being with a lesser looking man. Most men are average looking. So yes, you're naturally going to go for a 28 year old average looking man than a 40 year old average looking man. In fact, if Jude Law, David Beckham and Enrique Iglesias were not famous and just men off the street, I bet you'd even prefer to be with your average guy to feel better about his comparative ugliness.
You keep that ego self-massaged, babe!
Vi Nay, if I am still attractive at 28, you know I was a hottie at 20. And hotties tend to have hot friends. I partied in a club at 20 with two of my friends and one of the earlier season winners of The Apprentice (he was 40 at the time) and his two friends spent the night buying us drinks. Then we all had to get home and they were visibly deflated. What I am saying is that it was awesome to party with a rich guy who was on TV, but no amount of money could make us want to sleep with a 40-year-old. That was just gross.ReplyDelete
Now that I'm older, it's less gross, but most of my peers are not quite desperate enough to consider dating one just yet. It's true that the older women get the more desperate they become, and so they are more willing to date men with a much larger age gap. It's also true for women who have messed up and become single moms; they are more willing to date someone 13 years older. But don't be misleading and claim that your average atractive 27yo woman will pursue a relationship with a 40yo man. It's just not true. That doesn't become true until women become truly desperate around 34. Even at 33 I have known girls with above-average looks, and they were pursuing and dating younger guys, because 40yo guys are old.
I don’t doubt you were/are. You make a couple of decent points in the midst of the usual going astray and claiming things that I haven’t said. It’s ok though, I’ve spent a lifetime with girlfriends doing the same, so water off a duck’s back...Delete
You refrain to mention about how old the “rich” guys looked. All along within this subject, I’ve always stood by the fact that for a man to date a woman who is significant years younger (10 years+), he has to have looked after himself in order to look many, many years younger than his birth date. So in respect to your girly night, let me ask you a question. I know I’m stretching it by asking you to be honest and not answering with your ego, pride and agenda head first, but at least try. If a guy who looked like Jude Law, David Beckham or Enrique Iglesias (note: they had no fame or wealth) were these men as you reference, would you have found it gross?
The second way you go off road are your words of:
“But don't be misleading and claim that your average atractive 27yo woman will pursue a relationship with a 40yo man. It's just not true.”
I never have claimed this. The average 40 year old man is overweight, his eyes are baggy and wrinkly, he has saggy man breasts, his chin is of double rolls, he has a beer gut to back up his investment of many nights out, he is showing grey hair, and he has a mediocre repertoire of other qualities – personality, charisma, earnings, status, etc. The average 40 year old man will also have a couple of kids and probably be married. Never have I documented that your average 27 year old woman would pursue a relationship with THIS 40 year old man. What I do say is that this man as described could, and does, easily bag himself an average woman around 32 to 35 if he had to start over. So if you raise the bar and place a youthful looking 40 year old man (looking abundant years younger than his birth date) with other high end quality desirable metrics to exploit, this man could, and does, secure a woman of 27. With a man of this kind, the last thing the 27 year old woman needs to be concerned about is HIM being too old. She should spend more time about HER being a couple of years too old...
As for your last point, well yes, we all know someone who knows someone of this and that, my dad’s bigger than your dad, etc..... It isn’t too difficult for a 33 year old woman to find, say, a 28 year old man (good male looking age, wink), because the vast majority of men are just your average run of the mill people. To them, an above average looking (hence cute) 33 year old woman is quite a catch. It’s about the quality of the man. But answer honestly once more (I really am taking liberties now). As a ratio, how many 33 year old women are dating a 28 year old man, in comparison to how many 33 year old women are dating a 40 year old man? I’d go 1:6 at the very least. It’s about general trends with necessary caveats to give people advice, not exceptions to the rule.
You do seem like quite a smart woman, and your comments do entertain and challenge me. I like this in a woman. One thing I would suggest is for you to read and digest the whole post in its entirety, rather than cherry picking certain lines/paragraphs to shoot with your agenda and own life bubble. Your points will then come across with more fundamental credibility.
"If a guy who looked like Jude Law, David Beckham or Enrique Iglesias (note: they had no fame or wealth) were these men as you reference, would you have found it gross?" Jude Law was very handsome at 30, but at 40 had gone completely bald. So yes I would find it a bit gross. Enrique still looks good, though. David Beckham has a great body, but his face is too wrinkled and his voice is too high. So out of the 3, pretending they are just regular Joes in the club, I think 20-year-old me would have been responsive to Enrique's advances, but not the other two.Delete
I'm just being very honest, I have never actually met the "youthful looking 40 year old" or seen one outside of fame/Hollywood (James Marsden, Josh Holloway, Peter Facinelli). They might as well be unicorns. The 40-42yo men I know who have dated women in their 20's, and I have known a couple, both were considered unattractive. In the case of one woman, she dumped her bf for a guy her own age the minute she was able to find one (and he wasn't much better-looking than the 42-year-old she had been with I must say), and in the other case, she is a very dark-skinned black woman and unfortunately has low self-esteem (only speculating but I think that is part of the reason) & she doesn't think she can get a guy her own age to commit to her so she is settling, by her own quiet admission to me. I certainly don't see above-calibre older men dating women in their 20's."
As a ratio, how many 33 year old women are dating a 28 year old man, in comparison to how many 33 year old women are dating a 40 year old man?
I don't know about dating, but for marriage, we actually have stats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships#Statistics
11.6% of men are about 7 years older than their wives, vs. 3.3% of women being about 5 years older than their husbands. So you're absolutely right, it's definitely more common for the man to be a lot older, but this is primarily the result of remarriages/failed first marriages, and 53.6% of couples are within 3 years of each other's ages. That is a majority.
Ok, this will be my last question and comment regarding the subject.Delete
So we have established the following with you: You’re grossed out by 40 year old men who look their chronological age or not much younger (which most men do). A vast amount of money (in local profile context) definitely does not overcome this disgust in your veins. If a 40 year old man looks 10 years younger (as per Enrique), and he is good looking, you are open to his advances despite the age gap. You appear, unlike most women, to place high priority on a man’s physical attractiveness (providing he isn’t too good looking, as you would be worried about him fornicating due to other options). Coming to think of it, wouldn’t Enrique be too good looking (anyway, that isn’t my main question)? You like hair on a man’s head!
So my ultimate question is:
If George Clooney or a similar looking famous man (this time it actually is the famous man himself), who clearly looks 40 to 45, approaches you with ambitions to take it further, do you accept or decline? If you honestly answer “decline”, then I commend you. If you answer “accept”, what is the psychological-physical disconnection that makes you no longer see him or the situation as gross?
For me personally, I would decline because I am in a seriousDelete
relationship and would never cheat on my mate.
But honestly, George Clooney is not my type and I have never found him remotely attractive. I suppose if I was a less genuine person and more of a golddigger or fame seeker, I would date him just for that. But I turned down modelling offers as a teen and don't care about money (I am pretty unambitious to tell the truth), so I would almost 100% certainly turn him down.
Now, if you'd used Ryan Gosling as an example...
Before I forget, another reason that a lot of women before they are desperate will not consider a significantly older man no matter what is because what if things get serious and it DOES last until death? He is going to die long before you and then you'll be a widow for a lot longer than if you chose a man closer to your own age. I actually think that women who are thinking about forever and not just having a good time (ages 24 to 27) are actually MORE LIKELY to reject a much-older man than women who are like 22, because the 22yo knows it probably won't last and isn't worried about stuff like that anyways.ReplyDelete
I can’t argue with that point. Yes, if there is one, and there probably is only one feasible reason why a woman shouldn’t seek out even a young looking 40 year old man, it is for the point as you mention.Delete
But couples have got to reach that stage first. The whole directive to this post is that, on the basis a man meets a woman of similar age in his 20s, in conjunction to her not being many levels above him in physical attractiveness terms, as the years pass the danger is for him to appreciate her less and less as the years pass by. In a western world where there is more chance of a divorce forming from marriage than not, in addition to many more separated (but not divorced), looking that far ahead is perhaps not the most prudent thing to do.
But yes, I do agree that if a woman is post 23 and she has a “forever” mentality, it would be best all round for her to stay away from a man who is a decade older.
Marriage placed to one side (as marriage has no connection to love as the commenter at the top rightly points out), I am very much happy to grow old with the right woman and age naturally together. My point is that, all else equal, the happiest couples I see appear to be when the man and woman physically look a similar age. The brute reality is this will be, in pure median terms across a wide section, where the man is around 45 and the woman is 35 or 36. Of course it can go +/- on both gender sides depending on the blessed genes they attain, and granted, I take your point on the earlier deceased date of a man in this age gap dynamic being an issue.Delete
But yes, living for the present day trumps anything else. If that means a 28 year old woman with a 25 year old man, then so be it. If it is a 27 year old man with a 38 year old woman, then good for them. All I do is raise the possible longer term implications and challenges.
To be born an attractive woman is to be consigned to have the farthest to fall. There are no truly hot 60 year old women.ReplyDelete
Being born a hot woman is like being born a tall, good looking and wealthy man, who slowly becomes short, ugly and poor over time. You start as Hugh Jackman and wind up as George Costanza, lol. So marry while you have some currency left to spend.
And anonymous at 6:06 is correct. In my 40s, it is easier to date silly 20-somethings than it is to get commitment interest from aging 30-somethings.
Because the 30-somethings have spent too long polishing their 463-point list of demands, and yet their value goes down with each passing year. This causes them to constantly be in catch-up mode, trying to snag the kind of guy they could have had last year.
Trust me, formerly hot women in their late 30s are a million times harder to get with than hot women in their 20s. Because they begin to see their time and their looks slipping away, and they become stingy with both, like a lottery winner who once spent prodigiously, but is scrimping like mad to hand onto their last half-million.
I have no problem letting women in their 30s think I am open to LTR or marriage, which I am, but I usually leave out the fact that it is with someone else, of course. Hey, if they don't ask, I don't tell.
I like the lottery winner analogy, and I concur, although these high demands start well before their late 30s. This is why I try and advocate on this blog that men should never exert and give any more than necessary with women who are in their late 20s. Why pay the highest price for a stock that has an almost guarantee to lose rapid future value?Delete
You’re right about the fact women in their 20s (certainly early 20s) are easier to date than women in their 30s – due to the reasons you mention, amongst others – however it would be a touch misguiding to suggest (generally speaking, I’m not saying you are suggesting) that every woman in her early to mid 20s would date a man in his 40s. For this to happen, the man needs to have an array of offerings to bring to the table. Even if he is a younger looking 42 year old, this factor will often not be enough to ease the age gap discomfort in her mind. Much depends on the relative hotness of the woman and calibre of the man, but in general terms at least 50% of typical 25 year old women would turn the other way with a typical 42 year old man.