Young man dating an older woman

“Do we work for today, hope for tomorrow, and worry about next week when it arrives?”

About a year ago I met up with a friend who has been seeing a woman 13 years his senior for the last 4 years of his life.  The two of them met on a night out, and at first I think he was smitten by her mature personality, easiness to get on with, and adult conversation.  He has just celebrated his 30^th birthday, as she ponders blowing out 44 candles on the next birthday cake.  She has two children aged around 12 and 14 from a previous husband.

In fairness, she doesn’t look any older than her age, and if I’m pushed to kindness she could pass for a justified comment of not looking a day over 40.  Tick in the box for this.  I’ve only met her once, but she really is refreshing to talk to, she holds no arrogance or bitter attitude, and she is just a good, honest woman on the face it.  She has a good income and can stand on her own two feet.

She really does idolize him (although the validation of dating a much younger guy will be just as strong a motivation as the sound of her heart), and this was illustrated in 2013 when he went to Australia for six months work and told her, prior to departing, not to wait for him and just get on with her life.  She was adamant it could work, meeting him in Malaysia after a couple of months in hope the physical contact could bide some time.  She has recently suggested the two of them take a trip to Ozzie land in helping him reminisce, to which he has told me he couldn’t change the subject quick enough.  Knowing the answer, I asked him why.  As expected, he told me the last person he would want to be with is her when walking past inundated young cute chicks that seem to drop off trees down under.  More on this subject later…

During our lunch meeting, he had informed me she was at a crossroads in their relationship and was tired of living on bi-annual rental, proposing that they should buy a house together through shared mortgage.  He was so confused, saying it was way too soon to feel like ending it with her, but acknowledging he didn’t get excited about the prospect of being a committed family man.  Up until that point, he had little involvement with her kids, as he often said “they do their thing, I do mine.”  Whether true or not, I cannot ever recall knowing a man who has completely washed his hands with children belonging to his current female partner, even if he is not the biological father.  No matter how big or small, the involvement usually comes with some kind of price.

He asked for my honest advice based on what he had told me.  Unlike women (who should never be asked for relationship advice), men are far better at giving advice, because even though most men are not astute in understanding the way a female mind works and how it makes decisions in the emotional world, they (men) will usually base their words on honesty, objectivity, and no hidden agenda attached. 

Q-tip 1:

This is why a woman, and this even includes his own mother, is the last person a man should turn to for the path to choose in consideration to tribulations with a girlfriend, fiancé or wife.  A female mind is first and foremost designed to answer how it suits her own life, and secondary to how it impacts on you.  This is why young men will often be the biggest sufferers of broken hearts, because they rely on this biased but not always honest view received due to not being able to lean on their own experience to why things happen.  A broken heart is never welcome at 15, 25, 35, 45 or 55, but as each decade passes by, the pain becomes that less severe.  This is why it is prudent for any man to date, and not just sleep with, numerous women prior to ever deciding to settle down.

And I would like to think I back up everything I write.  It would have been easy for me to just tell him to ditch her because it won’t work, so that it opened up another single buddy for me to turn to if I desired a night out.  But people should always look themselves in the mirror when making decisions, knowing that your words have implications on others.  So in nothing more than honest words, I gave him one main pro and one main con in venturing on with her:

• The pro was based on how few women he will meet in the world with her level of personality traits.  Also, she will, with no guarantee, be loyal, faithful, and forever grateful to be with him.  Not many men, especially sought after men like him, would take on a woman 13 years older with two kids.  This will, or should, always give him the power edge on her within the relationship. 
• The con was based on, wait for it….the age gap in her being so much older.  Of course the age gap as a number is a factor, but the physical appearance differential is an even bigger concern.  He presently looks a dozen years younger than her, so unless he rapidly lets himself go and she makes efforts beyond mother time that slow down her physical ageing, this gap will only grow, and not decrease.  When he reaches 35, she will be looking near 50.  If they last to his 40^th, he may as well be looking at his mother.   

As no matter how much men, especially long term attached or married men, try to deny it, the male mind uncontrollably wanders to younger options.  For men who feel guilty about this, perhaps you should remind yourselves that this – men striving for female youth and beauty within feasibility grasp – is the gender equivalent of women grasping eagerly (even if non-verbally) for male status, wealth, and maximum providing facility.  Now who is the shallowest?

The two of them are still together.  My better judgement tells me he will enjoy today for today, and worry about tomorrow by tomorrow.  Not too bad a view I guess, as it’s all about the present when we never know the future.  I can’t tell him what I’d do, because I’d never have got to his position in the first place.

A final thought

If the age was reversed – hence a 30 year old woman with 43 year old man – it would still be a cause for concern in terms of longer term implications, but it is never as conspicuous as the woman being much older.  This is only because a younger woman finds the traits older men possess – maturity, wealth and status – attractive, even though it isn’t the number of his age she finds attractive per se.  In an ideal world, this man would be a similar age to her. 

The opposite applies when you switch the sexes.  Men place maximum emphasis on female beauty – something that is accustomed to younger women.  Again, in an ideal world this woman would be his own age, or only slightly younger.  Unfortunately, hardly ever is this the case.

  

You will often find women in their late 20’s, 30’s or even 40’s – usually women trying to hold onto their youth – who dismiss the possibility of women outside of gold-diggers ever going for much older men, and because it is very rare in the real world, they can justifiably hide behind these dismissals.  On the other hand, men who date much older women are usually the bottom 2% of male desirability quality out there.  My mate is a good catch in anyone’s objective eyes, and in total value terms he would creep into the top 10% of male calibre.  This is why a dynamic of this kind would leave someone distanced from the situation scratching their head. 

Q-tip 2:

For the more sensitive men out there (and contrary to female convenient belief, this actually reflects most men), it can be easy to feel sorry for a woman post 40 due to the tears often seen from her eyes or the tribulations she goes through in contrast to her happy go lucky female peer who is 20 years her junior.  If you are this man, the best lesson I can give you is as follows: 

In general terms of same aged gender counterparts between the ages of 16 (or younger if you want to be creepy) to the mid/late 30’s, women have a higher mate appeal – and therefore are more powerful in the relationship, and more prone to manipulate, demand, lie, cheat, aspire to upgrade, give up first, and jettison – than men.  All else equal, men then have a greater mate appeal from the mid/late 30’s to the mid/late 50’s.  From the mid/late 50’s onwards it pretty much evens itself out from an options perspective, despite what some wishful thinking men will tell you about dating women (women worth having) who are 30 years younger.  So in essence, both parties roughly have the same 20 year window of greater opportunity, power, and market value in their promotion to the opposite sex.  That seems a fair trade to me.  It’s only female selective speech, propaganda and weakness that allow a naïve man to believe women are always the victims and on the rough end of things. 

Women and nose studs

If you’re going through something, get through it.  Nobody’s going to do it for you.

I took a stroll through Derby city centre one random Thursday morning the other week.  It was no later than 10am after a quick meeting, and as I walked back down the cobbled street I saw a very attractive looking blonde haired woman walking in the opposite direction.  She was dressed well, had wavy blonde hair (not sure if natural blonde, but who cares), long fake red nails, a pretty face, and a curvy figure.  She looked in my direction as the moment passed too quickly as it always seems to in life.  On another occasion, perhaps if walking in the same direction, I would have spoken to her with light chit chat in order to assess her personality and intelligence levels, but instincts, time and mood were not on my side.

However, in spite of all her admirable visual features, one thing that stood out, negatively, was a nose stud.  I’m not for a minute saying that, in a fairytale world, had she offered me a free lay on a platter there and then I would have turned it down based on seeing this accessory of hers.  Of course not.  What it did achieve was to leave a liking of her below what my threshold was prior to noticing it.

I doubt I’m alone in this diminished predilection within the general male population view, but the numbers of women with nose pierced objects observed have grown significantly in recent years.   Outside of women who are obligated to sport them due to religion or culture, what do nose piercings actually accomplish?

• Do nose studs or rings make women look more physically attractive?  No. 
• Do they make women more bangable?  No, because unlike the intricate tattoo on the lower back, ankle or foot, I can’t think of many men who would develop a harder erection on this basis. 
• Do they assist women in illustrating an emblem of good girlfriend or long-term relationship material?  Err, absolutely not. 
• Do they allow women to think they can stand out more, look more unique than their female peers, and put a picture of the ridiculous thing on social media?  Yes.

The vast majority of men, who want to and try to impress women, fail in doing so because they are incomprehensive to what makes women tick.  Most men would change their failing habits if they grew a pair and learned or accepted the bitter truths that involve female habits, motivations, and likings. 

The same naivety cannot be said for women.  Due to better instincts and innate survival traits, the vast majority of women are completely aware what enforces men to be most attracted to them.  It’s only their prides and internal (and often external) voice fibs telling them anything opposite to the truth they already know. 

       

So if women are understanding to what makes men like them the most – for both sex and longer term prospects – yet they choose to engage in silly decisions like wrongful tattoo positions or nose piercings, the question begs to why they pro-act in this way:

• As touched on above, women have an uncontrollable competitive urge to out-do each other.  A nose stud, even if not for a long spell in wearing it, gives a woman this identity over and above her competition for this period of time.
• Many women at a younger age (16 to 23) have a greater urge for self-projected attention than the lure to attract the best quality boyfriend.  Such is the abundance in young women’s social, sexual and romantic options – due to being at their hottest, simultaneous to the swarms of horny and desperate men of same age – they can afford to take this strategy.  Although women are always after attention, as they get older there becomes a greater need to locate a long term male partner – therefore they will usually make wiser and more rational decisions.
• Up to the age of 35, or 40 at an absolute push, the average woman is more valuable and desirable than the average man.  Even though a random woman is only average scale in beauty (and average also in any other less relevant attractiveness metrics), the random man in this same age bracket falls even below this female mediocrity benchmark.  This results in men having to try harder for women's attention, affection, sex, and love, in comparison to women trying in the same way with men.  Ultimately, the by-product of male excessive exertions manifests in being more forgiving.  So the run of the mill man will give leeway to a woman wearing a nose stud, even though deep down he won’t find it attractive.

In essence, women can get away with poor choices such as noise pierced studs or rings and tacky tattoos due to holding the keys to the doors of love up until a certain age.  At 20, a woman can get away with near on all of her poor choices.  At 25, she could probably still get away with the poor choices she made at 20 with most men, but now her first phase obsession to find “the one” is in place, she will intricately adjust somewhat to suit.  At 30, poor decisions made will detrimentally impact on the route to find her soulmate, as a larger proportion of men now give her less leeway than the oversight these men took on her younger self.  At 35, the rubbish choices she makes will deter more than half the men she would settle for, and she starts to find (even if not accept) that far more men are now turning the other way.  At 40 and beyond, a poor option she takes will only be forgiven by the garbage of male existence.

The moral to all this?  A woman should make her top heavy poor choices at the youngest age possible, if securing sought after men is a bigger draw to her than attention-seeking ego thrills she may acquire in the short term.  Better still, to not make poor choices at all…  

Avoid ever saying this

"Dreaming is free, so keep on dreaming." 

(Cristiano Ronaldo)

For those of you who are avid followers of football (soccer!), or have just kept in touch with the recent European Championships in France, you will probably be aware of the achievements of Wales in reaching the semi-finals.  Considering England’s embarrassing and pitiful efforts, Spain’s predictable and now unsuccessful way of playing, and under-achievements of Germany, Belgium, Poland and Croatia, the boys from the valleys have been the revelation of the tournament.  That is along with Iceland.  Congratulations to the Portuguese, and commiserations to the French.  A great spectacle and atmosphere it was, albeit with uninspiring matches by and large.

If you follow me so far, you will probably know of the Wales team coach, Chris Coleman.  After their exit, but prior to the home welcoming, I saw Coleman walking alongside a pretty cute woman who, from first glance, looked a reasonable number of years younger than him.  Maybe I’ve been living under a cave for the last few years, but unbeknown to me the woman is (previously) Charlotte Walker – a British presenter on Sky Sports News.  They are now married with two children.

Coleman, at the age of 45, is a good looking and youthful looking man.  He certainly has physically aged well, and he could get away with someone thinking he is almost a decade younger than what shows on his birth certificate.  Walker (or Mrs Coleman) is 37, and she is also looking pretty good if compared to your random woman off the street of same age.  Nevertheless, in my after first sight opinion, there doesn’t look a great deal in age difference between the two of them.  Furthermore, in gender relative terms I’d say there is very little to choose between them in physical attractiveness, to the point where I’d actually go one step further and say he is marginally the more eye-catching.

This is why I was somewhat bewilderedto see this statement taken from a previous interview:

 ‘In my career I was always known as a player who punched above his weight and I think I’ve done that with Charlotte. I’m absolutely delighted.’

Really?  Relying on my two weary eyes, I certainly don’t see how he is punching above his weight in any such metric.  It’s not like he’s pulled a worldie glamour or underwear model.  His status and profile is at least a couple of levels above her equivalence.  I would expect, without proof, his wealth and assets to be significantly above what she earns and owns.

Now of course the argument you anticipate from women, in particular women around the same age as Charlotte, would be that the sheer fact a woman is prepared to be with a man 8 years her senior is the main reason he should be so grateful to be with her.  Wrong.  Based on her physical looks alone, a loser or mediocre man scoring a woman identical looking to her could be seen as shooting above his weight, not that he should produce a mindset that is basked with gratitude in gracing her almighty existence.  However, a man with options and quality, even in the non-famous world, can easily attract and secure a woman 10 years or more his junior.  Even an average appealing man can score a cute woman who is a good few years younger than him, such is the abundance of cute women in relation to the tiny numbers of top quality men they want to be with.  Many of these cute women have to settle for much less.  If you don’t believe this is the case, spend a day or two looking at couples who back up this dynamic.

Side note:

Coleman has four children (ranging from their teens to early 20’s) from his previous marriage.  This could also offer an argument to wishful-thinking women that the appreciation levels should be weighted on his side of the scales.  Once more, look at reality.  First, in the world of high status people, Coleman could have eight children and I very much doubt it would have detracted Walker one bit.  Second, there are so many women in the “real world”, with men who are fathers to kids from previous sexual experiences, to prove that women are even arguably more attracted to parent men than non-parent men – all else being equal.

This is why a comment in the form of “I’m punching above my weight” is arguably a phrase that rules above all in terms of my nausea feeling and wrongful advised moves that men can make.  “I’m so lucky to have her” or “she is my princess I can never do enough for” are up there too in puke up thoughts.  Why men would ever say such things, let alone think them, can only leave me in thinking, and knowing, that the average man off the street, and in clear majority, is totally clueless in understanding how women tick. 

Women’s hearts tick by being challenged, having to work for a man’s love, and never quite knowing if she is good enough for him.  These are the women who are most in love and, in life’s irony, the happiest women.  Women who are with men acting the opposite – having him in the palm of her hand, never working hard to please him because he has convinced her he can do no better, and thinking she can do better - are women at their least happiest.  Even your own relationship history should be enough to paint the picture to both sides of the fence.

Q-tip 1:

It is an easy an idle assumption to think that high status/famous men are all alpha males, and they consequently have a natural ease in how to handle women and say or do the right things.  This is by far the case.  Fame and high profile do offer an immediate path to an element of alpha male status, and it is most definitely the strongest attribute in attracting female interest, but this doesn’t mean men in this bracket are all great in knowing how women tick.  Many famous men are as beta as the average man, but they get away with it far more due to the instant challenge that male fame and power projects onto the female mind and heart.  In a relationship, these high profile men also have more leeway in acting beta, because although the famous man’s unchallenging ways will irritate his woman, she is more reluctant to leave or cheat, such is what she has to lose.

Specific caveats?

Whilst I don’t think this is the case, you cannot rule out the remote possibility that Chris Coleman is actually a psychological genius in the chosen subject of female emotions and mentality.  There are times, as isolated as they are in the whole scheme of things and percentage terms, that a woman under the age of 40 is with a man who is clearly and objectively above her in mate value and overall attractiveness.  Although I would never ever abide by the “I’m punching above my weight with her” phrase, in these rare situations there are times that a woman needs reassurance of her man’s interest, attraction, commitment and love. 

At the risk of bragging, I have more often than not been in these scenarios myself – knowing I have a higher mate value than the women I have been involved with - but even today I wouldn’t go on record as saying I have mastered the actions to take.  Nobody can ever truly say they have totally worked out how a woman will connect on the side of challenge or reassurance, and this is all the more applicable in the early stages when you get to know her.  You simply put more pieces of the jigsaw together as time goes on within the relationship timeframe.  With this in mind, a balance in never allowing her to think you are lucky to have her, aligned with glimpses that you won’t run off at the drop of a hat, is the safest and best law of average path to take. 

Q-tip 2:

The “challenge to reassurance” scale is female age dependent, irrespective of the male age and mate value.  The same man would need to lean over to reassurance with a woman in her late 20’s, in relation to having to sway towards the challenge side with that same woman in her early 20’s.  This applies even if she has physically aged well.  You won’t get tell-tale signs from the older woman that she needs this reassurance, as female immaturity, self-ego escalation, and expectation levels give off an external front to convince others she is still as admirable as ever.  It’s her internal self-doubting niggles, manifested from the everyday mirror reflections and viewing of younger female competition, that needs this little bit of reassuring.        

This is why a man in his late 20’s to early/mid 30’s, often at his peak appeal stage in the course of a lifetime, will still often find it a touch difficult in closing the deals with a lot of cute girls in their early 20’s.  Although she may intrinsically be aware he is above her worth, even sometimes in the physical looks stakes too, the sheer fact that she is being surrounded by supplicating, over-complimenting and desperate guys her own age means she believes her overall value is a grade or two above what the objectivity clearly shows.      

Acknowledgements and further reading

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3086163/Their-Match-Day-TV-presenter-Charlotte-Jackson-football-manager-Chris-Coleman-tie-knot-intimate-wedding-ceremony-loved-ones.html   

Check the female environment numbers and trends

Someone who anticipates unideal outcomes isn’t necessarily a pessimist. 

He is often the pre-conceiving realist.

I’d seen this woman in the gym over the last couple weeks.  In the context of all women who go in the gym, I’d say a maximum of 5% strike my attention, whilst less than this percentage, on face value alone, justify effort to get to know them for the potential longer haul.  This woman possessed the attributes to back up the endeavours required.

For reason that is relevant later in this post, she was a white girl.  She sported a curvaceous body, straight long dark brown hair, pretty (from the distance I tended to see her from) face, tidy (although fake) nails, and tight fitting but not over-exposing gym kit.  In relative physical attractiveness terms, we were on each other’s level (or if the truth be told, her being marginally below!).  Of course this was always going to be my first apprehension, simply because women prefer lesser looking men unless there is something they can gain from the opposing, but rare, situation.  For the record, she looked 26 to 27.  I go with this age because once I got alongside her, she looked like and reminded me of, almost frighteningly, my ex-girlfriend of half a dozen years ago -  who just so happened to be that age back then.

The ex-girlfriend I reference was a rare breed.  Whilst lower end hot (8/10), she was a bit immature for a woman her age.  A large part of this, in retrospective opinion, was because she worried about getting older and seeing younger female competition out.  She also knew I had dated women younger than her previously.  So her counteractive strategy, as is the habits of most women in the same position, was to act like a young kid in convincing the mind she is still 21.  This isn’t an attractive trait at all, but women can get away with it such is the lapdog male dominated land we live in who kiss their arses no matter what.

Nevertheless, her immaturity did benefit me at the time.  A mere hot woman of 8/10 at the age of 27 wouldn’t usually pick out a hotter guy, no matter how marginally hotter, than her.  I’d seen a couple of her exes, and their mediocre looks would back up the normal resumed service.  So I can only assume that her concern for getting through her 20’s manifested in making it an irritable, but still self-validating, decision to date a hot guy.  However, take it as read that most women past their mid-20’s will rarely seek out a man better looking than them.

Back to the hot gym girl.  I’d seen her checking me out a few days before, and if nothing else I knew she was sexually attracted to me.  I am also street-wise enough to know that whilst it is always better to have a woman physically attracted to you than otherwise, especially when very other little information is available to her, it by no means translates to the deal being pre-signed.  In the opposite dynamic – a man finding a woman sexually arousing – the only thing that stands in his way are current female attachments or commitments.

This woman also seemed to be fairly tanned in comparison to the average white girl.  I tend to think sunbeds were her thing, as a working white girl in conjunction with recent British weather wouldn’t have plausibly given her a slightly darker shade.  This was always going to be another sticky situation for me – being a mixed-raced guy who tans easily, and as an uncontrollable ramification, something that pisses most women off.  From my past experiences, the women who have been frequently receptive to my advances are very pale white, Asian, southern European (hence olive shade), or black Afro-Caribbean girls.  The least receptive tended to be the white Caucasian ethnicity who tried to look darker – either by sunbeds, fake tan, or over-consumed make-up.  I have my own conclusions to this theory, but for once I’ll leave it with you to reason.

On the day when she was checking me out, and perhaps in a mood of greater receptiveness, it would be no coincidence to seasoned campaigners of female behaviour that a few other cute girls were knocking around the same workout area as me.

Q-tip:

If a man had umpteen opportunities per day to approach women worth having, his success rate, at least in the immediate term, would be far more successful if other women are in the vicinity of the target woman.  This is all the more applicable if the rival women are only slightly lesser looking, as hot, or hotter, than her.  Nevertheless, bear in mind this friendlier and more forthcoming interaction you will receive is the motivational implication of female competition as opposed to her projected attraction onto you.  If she was indifferent about you in the first place, she will be indifferent once the exploitation of being the chosen one is no longer there.

So critically, but certainly not oblivious to this, on the day I approached her a few things went against me:

• I was tanned from a recent vacation.
• As it was mid-week, she was perhaps a little lighter than her usual fake-tan glow – due to no weekend sunbathing or early week tan beds.
• It was on a day when no other cute women were around.
• She is 26 to 27 years of age - not 23 or younger when a higher emphasis on male hotness is taken.

Now PUA “experts” will be asking the question to how I opened up conversation.  As I’m not a great advocator of witty negs (although negs do have their place) or even spending too much time on what you are going to say (as a man spending too much effort and time on his approach is already psychologically placing his value below the woman), my question was nothing more than “Do you play tennis?”  She said no, but I told her she possessed a tennis figure and I needed a new mixed-doubles partner.  Indirect opener, neither compliment or insult (as some female tennis players are hot and some are not so glamorous), and an unconfirmed pre-selection of probable past girlfriend who was my doubles partner – which, it just so happens to be the case!

I got the feeling she was already looking to walk off even before I opened my mouth.  I can’t rule out that she didn’t find me at all attractive.  Maybe it was because she was in a hurry.  Or maybe she had made up her mind about me irrespective.  In any case, since approaching her I’ve noticed she no longer goes to the gym at the times she previously trained at.  Pure coincidence, or something more to it?  Read into this what you will…

Q-tip:

Whilst it is far better for a man to attain interaction strategy (aka game) than to have none, the effectiveness in results is somewhat overrated.  Anyone can quite happily disagree with this, but it matters little to me and it wouldn’t change my view.  To elaborate, a man’s game will not be as important to his pick-up success as social status to women under 24, and occupational status and wealth to women above this age.  Furthermore, a woman ticking the boxes of her comforting emotions – easing her insecurity, massaging her ego, and mitigating her self-consciousness – by dating a less physically attractive man than her will also be a far greater reason behind a woman’s ultimate choice decision than the game this lesser looking man holds to his armoury.  This is why game, to good looking men, borders over to being counter-productive.

For any man who has dated more than just his wife and a couple of women beforehand, he will draw up trends, consistencies, likelihoods and eventualities when he recollects all his past approaches,  interactions, dates and relationships with an array of women.  Despite what the male pride is devilled to accept, concede or broadcast, the failures are just as, if not more, important as the successes.  

Women and men want different bodies to what attracts the opposite sex

“Am I one step behind, or two steps ahead?”

In the space of two years since this article was published, I personally do not see, hear or sense anything today that would suggest women or men have stood away from what body type they strive to achieve, in relation to the profile they believe attracts the opposite sex.

This picture alone will tell you everything you need to know about the misconceptions, or perhaps genuine self-predilections, we live in when it derives in achieving a certain body to exploit. 

I actually read this link some months ago, and the outcomes most certainly came as no surprise to me.  This lack of fall off my seat moment was brought about by nothing more than recollecting a few conversations and observations from experiences, in addition to the undeniable trends shown when stepping out into the real world.  You only need to hear the amount of men (some who I train with) who have an inclination or sometimes obsession to be bulkier at the compromise of being toned, and they will get there through any necessary substance possible, whether legal or not.  Then I recall the amounts of ex-girlfriends, or female acquaintances, who appeared in desiring to be skinnier than their curves display, and no matter how many times you tell them that the vast majority of men prefer curves over skinny, it doesn’t seem to sink in.  Or at least they don’t allow it to sink in.

The important and critical part of this subject to dissect is based on each gender’s motivation in aspiring to attain their “perfect” body type:

Men’s motivations

By clear majority, men want to achieve the body type they think will attract the most women, and usually this will mean wanting to appeal to the highest numbers of cute and hot women within  their feasibility grasp.  It is important to note that there is a distinction in attracting most women in comparison to attracting the hottest women, simply because most women are not hot, or even cute.  With this in mind, >95% of men would give some of their body mass and bulk away in trade for easier access to the most beautiful women.  In other words, with knowledge to what women are most attracted to, men looking like the beefier guy would swop for looking like the more toned option.        

This can only draw to the conclusion that most men actually think most women like the more beefcake look, but as most men are clueless to what women want generally – emotionally, how to be handled, how much love to give them, gift expenditure levels, when to say no, etc – this doesn’t come as a shock to anyone who opens their eyes and comprehends how horribly wrong men get it.

The other point to men’s body achievement motivations is age related.  Men above the age of 35 will have at some stage lived in the era of Stallone, Arnie and Van Damme, and as this decade or so led men to believe in and aim for, alongside a much different female taste from that generation, a “bigger is better” appearance, many men’s history, prides and ignorance refrains them from toning over bulking.  It’s no surprise then that a decent percentage of beefy looking men, often on steroids, are above their mid 30’s.  The women walking hand in hand with them are of similar age. 

Women’s motivations  

Unlike men, women’s motivations to seek an “ideal” body on themselves are not solely, predominantly or primarily born out of attracting the opposite sex.  Now yes, if a lot more men were high earning celebrities and news came out that this privileged male group desired only curvaceous women, you can bet your last penny that any woman once wanting to be skinny would curve herself up.  Simply put, if a woman could give herself that lifestyle, her principles, tastes or self-preferences would be thrown out of her all so moral window.

As >99% of men aren’t famous, women basically are more in it to please themselves than to please Average Joe – at least in their prime visually aesthetic years when they receive plenty of male attention and can afford to rule selfishness and self-preference over and prior to settling and compromising.  What this allows women to do is, to a degree, take oversight to the body type men would like to see on them in change for what they perceive will make them most valuable.

Their perception of what is most valuable is a skinny frame (or skinnier than the curves men prefer on them), because in a world where they are constantly picking up celebrity magazines or checking out crappy reality TV shows, skinny women are prominent to their viewing.  These skinny women are often with famous and rich men, so who can blame a self-centred, naïve and happy hunting girl for thinking this body type will offer her a better opportunity of this life, even if it is detracting the mass male population.

Another inclination for a woman to be skinny is the unofficial competition with her female peers.  A woman will get a better feeling from being skinnier in comparison to her rivals than being curvier.  It’s not until she starts to see curvy women with high quality men that her review system, gym regime and diet may adjust.

Other considerations

Other worthwhile notes to take down are how men prefer bigger breasts on women than a woman would herself like.  I guess this once more goes in line with what women see on the rich and famous, although from my first-hand experience I’ve only ever known women to want bigger (or maybe firmer) rather than smaller tits.  So this did come as a slight surprise.

Hair is an interesting one.  The difference in a woman’s preferred hair on her in relation to what men want is negligible in the whole scheme of things, so we’ll close this page.  With men’s hair, this is quite a difference.  Men think women want a short style, whilst women prefer him with much wavier and longer locks.  From what I’ve read, a curlier, wavier and longer hairstyle on men is here to stay for the near future at least.  That said, a man will rarely lose out by having a shorter cut, and it is a much safer bet if in doubt that a longer style can be pulled off.

In conjunction with a curvier desire, men want a woman to have a bit more meat on her legs than the woman wants on her preferred skinnier frame.  On the reverse situation, women want toned but thinner legs on a man.  This won’t please the rugby players I know who advocate the only male body worth having is the one they require to throw around an oval shaped ball.

Q-tip 1:

• Although these findings are more than valid to what women will find most sexually attractive on a man, bear in mind that each anatomy part has been based on male celebrity body belongings.  This male perfect body devised by women will be what they find most sexually arousing, but don’t confuse this with what they choose in a male partner.  The vast majority of women, even regular cute and hot women, will find this ideal male body too intimidating for their low confidence and high insecurity thresholds. 
• With the perfect female body put together by men, this is the woman they would most want to date, sleep with, and marry - all else being equal.  With men, what you see is what you get, with no agenda hidden or ego present (just an uncontrollable dick that rules his head!).

A final thought

So ultimately men would like women to be curvier than what women want to be, and women would prefer men with less bulk than the heavy weights, protein shakes and backstreet supplements are producing.  Men are getting it wrong through blinkered eyes, whilst women more likely know what men prefer but are running down a different motivational treadmill.

This is why I chuckled some years ago when I first started attending the gym.  A number of beefcake men tried to give me advice in getting much bulkier, and in truth I did need to put on some mass.  Nevertheless, I always took note of the types of women who were seen with over-muscled men.  They tended to be older women past their best days, and never the best looking.  Often they would be dedicated to the weights and grip gloves themselves, with far too much female muscle that accompanied their wrinkly parts, fake tans, or drenched on make-up.  What kind of man needs that kind of woman?  Well not me, anyway.

And this is perhaps a good final thought to leave with.  It is easy for a less clued up man to think that if he sees a young, very attractive woman in the gym, it is the assumption she also wants a man with at least as impressive a body as her in gender relative terms.  This is not the case by clear majority.  Because after seeing this woman for a few gym sessions, you then walk past her in the shopping mall with a man sporting nothing better than a mediocre (or worse) body.  It often doesn’t look like he has ever even passed the bar of the gym.  In essence, this woman is trying to look as good as she can for self-fulfillment, to look better than her female competition, and to locate the highest quality man (outside of male high quality visual blessings) to commit to her.  This by no means translates to a man spending too much time in the gym.  

Q-tip 2:

In an ideal world, men would like 8 to 9 out of 10 women walking through the gym door (or any social or working environment) to consist of high level female beauty.  The 1 to 2 women who fall under this bar is down to nothing more than a male emotion necessity of comfort and attainability, especially for less sought after men.  On other hand, women would like the opposite scenario.  They require a world where 9 out of 10 men are run of the mill (not ugly, but not too visually impressive), with the isolated 1 man to give them visual, and if they want it sexual, pleasure. 

Acknowledgements and further reading

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/here-is-the-perfect-male-and-female-body-according-to-m-1562492498