"Show me the charts and I’ll tell you the news." (Bernard Baruch)
A reader asks for my view based on an abstract from this previous post:
Hey Vi Nay, I have a question on this part
"I have to say that if ever there is reinforcement required to illustrate how men deep in their thirties or older (providing these men look after themselves and keep looking young) can attract numerous women ranged as young as 18 to as old 45, then it shouldn’t be questioned any longer."
How does this apply to bald guys? Assuming they keep in shape as best as possible can a bald dude in his late 30s/early 40s still attract a woman in the 27-30 range? I know how much most women love hair and in some circles being bald is a looks destroyer.
Also off topic but wanted to ask as well, you mention the best thing a good looking guy can do to improve his chances with women is to improve all of his non-visual attributes, since women need to get something out of the deal to offset him being more attractive than she is.
Do you find good looking guys to be generally less ambitious than average looking / ugly guys?
It is well advised to, before dissecting further, lay out some ground rules in deriving to women’s preferences:
1) All else equal, a woman prefers to be with a man who is less physically attractive than she is.
2) Most women prefer to be with men who are older than they are.
3) Women will place the above two preferences to one side if they can gain in other ways – mainly through a man’s status and wealth.
4) Nearly all women, if honest, prefer a man with hair in contrast to a bald man.
This may sound like a straight-out negative answer to your query, but as you will see in a few minutes, there is a lot more positive to come out of this than you right now are most likely thinking.
In fact, instead of me giving an elaborate answer on this, I will simply reference you to this previous post on the subject. Handy I found that!
In summary to this topic though, yes, a man in his late 30s/early 40s can absolutely attract women in the 27-30 bracket. It is by no means a destroyer, as you put it. At worst, it will reduce the pool of women the bald man can attract. On smaller occasions, being bald may actually play in his favour.
Are good-looking guys less ambitious than average-looking/ugly guys?
This is an excellent question, and perhaps a no size fits all way to answer. Whenever this is the case, I can simply only analyse on a general basis.
The general rule of thumb and consensus is that the less physically attractive a man is, the more ambitious he will strive to be in order to bridge the gap between women’s higher attraction that is projected onto his better-looking male counterparts. This is, whilst it cannot be proven, unofficially true.
A man in this scenario will, deep down, know that he needs to offer women compensating factors in order to mitigate her lack of sexual attraction onto him. Some men (and women) even joke about this, but it is usually unspoken to avoid damaging each gender pride, ego and integrity.
With this being said then, on a wholesale basis it is a fair argument that average-looking and ugly men will be more ambitious and career-oriented to compensate for their lesser physical blessings. The more social status, occupational status, wealth, charisma, style, confidence and (perhaps most importantly) pre-selection evidence he can prove by the form of other women ignited to him he attains, the higher the number, and greater the quality, of women taking oversight to not being attracted to him on face value alone.
Between 16 to 23, most women “love” a man for who he is and not what he is. Between the female age of 24 to 32, and most women “love” a man for what he is and not who he is. Women aged 33 and beyond, and in particular those who have already been married and are mothers, fall somewhere in between the two extremes.
In comparison, many of the better-looking men at an early age (high school through to university age) will be in popular social groups where the hottest women are also to be seen. This often reduces a man’s inclination to be ambitious, as he has an easy life just getting laid with hot girls. Nevertheless, this good time has a small lifespan, and it is not anywhere close to achievable once women pass 23 years of age.
Exceptions to the rule
The exception to this general rule, and something which is ignored and not considered – basically because it applies to such a tiny minority of men, in addition to the average person’s lack of knowledge and/or lack of acceptance towards this circumstance – is when a top end (top 1%) physically attractive man will in fact need to be equally as ambitious as the average to ugly men as explained.
When a man is very good-looking, and if he attains a level of status, confidence, style and charisma which is also way above the average man’s yardstick, logic suggests that he can almost just sit back and not do anything that reflects ambition or improves his life - such is the likelihood so many women will be queuing up to be with him. In reality and practice however, this is not the case. At least, once more, when women age past 23.
A man of this highest calibre in physical attractiveness will give off the impression to pretty much all women that he can have his pick of each one of them. Whilst nearly all these women will find him physically attractive, and they will have fantasies of sleeping with him, in practice the vast majority of these women will not go near him. At least, once again, unless it falls in her most fertile few days in the month.
A woman in this predicament - whose heart and sexual impulses are telling her "yes", but her ego and insecurity is telling her "no" - cannot feel special enough in herself, such is the knowledge she holds that so many other women are attracted to him. Add on her trust, insecurity and ego issues, and she plays the game of a safer bet with a lesser looking man.
What this all loopholes back to, in a kind of bizarre way, is that the high sought-after man needs to mitigate this female resistance by offering women something that will remove their irritable mindset of his male beauty. The easiest explanation to this would be a great-looking famous sports star, film star, or similar. These men will have a conveyor belt of the hottest women lining up to be with him, but it isn’t because of his physical allure. Women will still have the same issues with him being physically eye catching, but the lure of money, fame, easy life and popularity kills this nagging feeling to a degree that allows them to know there is far more to gain than there is to lose.
In essence then, it isn’t so much that better-looking men are less ambitious than lesser-looking men, as much as lesser-looking men are more ambitious than better-looking men. The nuance in these words should not be ignored.
I hope this clarifies both points to your question.
First, a man’s baldness will act as more of a negative than a positive, but it isn’t a deal-breaker. It is not a dissimilar comparison to a man being shorter than the average male height. In both cases, there are opportunities for the bald or shorter man to elevate the kind of woman he can acquire if taken from standing start.
Second, the less physically attractive a man is, the more ambitious he will need to be in appealing to sought-after and younger women.
All else being equal, upper average-looking to above average-looking men (6.5/10 to 7.75/10) have the largest pool of women to choose from. They are good-looking enough to attract women and consequently have women give them an opportunity, but not below this benchmark to where diminishing returns exist due to a woman believing she can do far better.
Hi Vinay, I just had a question. I'm 20 years old, and I've had problems with women since they found me good looking. I wouldn't know exactly how good looking I am, but I do get stares from women anywhere I go. And that's happened ever since I was in middle school, when girls first started to find me attractive. The thing is I always go for women older than me. From 27-30. I know you've said women from 23 onwards are going to give good looking men a chance. And I've noticed it since I've approached several women who stare at me with bed eyes, like you say, but I always get rejected, or even if I approach them as a friend, they're always distant. It doesn't feel like a normal friendship. But the thing is I don't really have any friends my own age, and when I talk to a girl my own age, I get bored with them cause the seem a bit immature. I know they're not the weird ones, I am, since I get along better with people older than me. So should I start looking for other girls my age? And should I focus on finding a girlfriend or just sleeping with them? Since I tend to be more of a relationship guy than a promiscuous type of guy. Whenever I've had opportunities to sleep with really hot girls I've never taken them, because I was looking for a girlfriend, and not just a fling, and now I regret that.ReplyDelete
Hi mate, hope you're well?Delete
First, I think you have misinterpreted the 27-30 years old women. What I've actually said is this is the hardest female age group (24 to 32) in terms of women giving the best looking men a go. This is because this female age group are looking for a safer man to settle down with, and their perception of a good-looking man is anything but this.
Nevertheless, it is clear you are a mentally mature man for your age, and I get why women your own age frustrate the hell out of you. With this in mind, you have two options:
1) Try and figure out the women in the older bracket you mention who don't look like they are in a hurry to settle down. Have you seen her with another edgy looking man in the recent past? Is there a sense that she may like younger guys, or more to the point, she wants a younger guy to feel better about herself. These are low percentage plays, but they are out there.
2) Look for women your own age who appear like they aren't women who are into going out with their girly friends much. Homely Girls, as I label them. Not only is a woman this age more likely to give you a chance compared to a woman >23 because of the age factor, but a woman <23 generally has a stronger urge to put her heart (and sexual predilections) ahead of her ego - which plays into good-looking men's strengths.
In respect to relationship or just sleeping with them, the best advice I would give you is what I do. Basically, don't think too hard about this when you approach. Let it be what it is. You can then drop subtle hints early on in asking what phase she is going through - whether wanting an exclusive relationship or just a hook up - but at this juncture you need to try and put it like this:
"I prefer exclusive relationships given the choice, but I'm flexible and not naive enough to know not every girl wants that or they don't see that in me. So I'm happy to go with what you want at the moment."
What this achieves is beneficial on two fronts. One, it will go a long way to convince her you're not just a pump and dump guy. Second, if it was more the hook up she wants (which is still by far the less likely), then at least you add more experience in women to your collection whilst you can look for one who desires a relationship.
I'm the same guy from above, I have another question. Every time I've gone and talked to a girl. (Especially at the gym) I've gotten the typical "huh"s. Even though they were staring at me. But I've only approached a few, since it left a bitter taste that every time that would happen. What should I expect if I keep trying? Currently I don't go to bars or go out much, so the gym is where I can meet women. I know you've said the gym is not the best place to do it, but that's currently my only option. How many women should I approach for one to take me on? Cause with every failure the less I wanna keep trying, and it's frustrating since they're clearly attracted to me, but always end up treating me like shit. Thanks, I can't ask anyone else about these types of problems since so few men have them and the ones that I know that have them are as clueless as me.ReplyDelete
Oh dear mate, it's an all too familiar story...Delete
This problem isn't going to go away absent of you suddenly coming into millions of dollars or overnight fame. Only these factors eradicate (most) women auto-rejecting good-looking men.
With that said, there are things you can do to give yourself a better chance of at least receptiveness, and best case scenario, her taking it to the next stage:
1) Was the stare a nice one, or was it just an almost resentful look of admiration of your male beauty? Whilst this is not absolute, you will have a much better chance with the former than the latter. With this in mind, prioritize approaching the friendlier ones.
2) Just go with situational openers, and you will know early on in her body language and reception to whether she is down to talk or just was doing nothing more than eyeing you.
3) Approach the hottest girls only. These will be the ones whose noses are not put out of joint as much as the cute/lower hot girls. I don't necessarily advise only approaching the 8.5's to 9's, but from my experience these are the ones who are most engaging with the hottest men.
4) Whilst approaching many women is a good thing, if there are a few women in there you like the look of, try and approach one woman when the others are not there or can't see you do it. Whilst women like male pre-selection, if one sees you approach another, she will often be a little resentful you didn't choose her, and if you approach her on another day, she will recall this in a negative manner.
At your age, I'm still a little surprised you are having such low percentage success with women your own age. I would have thought this would be nearer to 40% to 50% success rate. It's when women get >23 when this percentage starts to creep nearer to 80% to 90%. So the logic prevails, you will need to approach 10 women in hope that 1 or 2 give you a chance.
But yes, I'm afraid there's no easier answer than to keep approaching as many women as possible, with the strategy and considerations as explained above.
Finally, don't get too down about all this. It's just a female trait that acts like this. They aren't like men who just simply would sleep and be in be relationship with a woman he finds physically attractive. Women rarely choose the men they are most sexually attracted to. It's just the wonderful world of female emotion, and you are moving their feelings more than most men. Take it as a back-handed compliment.
Hope this helps? Good luck.
Thanks Vinay, I'll do as you said. And the reason I didn't have success with girls my age before was cause I was very insecure. I didn't feel like I deserved them when they wanted to have sex with me, and it was coupled with the fact that I just wanted to have a girlfriend. But now the insecurity is gone, now I just need to do as you said. It was just frustrating that once I wanted to do something about it for once, I would get so many rejections. But thanks again, I wouldn't know what to do had I not found your blog. You're a lifesaver.Delete
Absolutely mate, and a pleasure.Delete
Just go with the flow, you have many years ahead of you to think about settling down, and who knows, over time you may change and not even want that any more such is the options of shorter term likings. Nobody knows how they will change, that is one thing I can tell you.
Just flirt with life. As the saying goes:
"If you have one foot in the past and one foot in the future, you're pissing on the present."
Just enjoy life for what it is, and try not to let the negatives wear you down. They're not worth it...
Thanks man, and I just had one last question :) I don't want to be annoying haha, but what would be the signs that I'm looking for to know that it will go somewhere when I approach them, besides being friendly? What normally happens to you when it does go somewhere? Interaction wise. And thanks again, I'm asking too many questions. Haha. I don't really know much since the girlfriends I've had pursued me, but I know now that's a rare ocurrence.Delete
No problem mate, apologies I am only just replying. I've been away from the laptop for a few days.Delete
Here's a few tips:
1) Has she put herself near your surroundings (see link below - first one)? This is a decent positive sign, but not a guarantee by any means.
2) Does she ask you questions during interaction (see link below - second one)? This is a good sign, but never a guarantee. It shows she has some level of interest though to pursue.
3) Does she say she has a boyfriend as soon as you start to get a bit more intimate, flirty or personal (se link below - third one)? Or does she in fact do the opposite? The answer will tell you a lot to whether it is worth pursuing.
4) Does she look in awe of you (but not too in awe as this can be counter-productive) or clearly interested? Naturally a good sign.
5) Does she look comfortable and in no hurry to leave when you interact? If so, this is positive.
6) Conversely to the above, if she asks you nothing about yourself, she just talks about herself, is ignorant when you approach, has negative body language, gives no/little eye contact, hides behind her earphones, appears in a hurry to leave and offers no conversation....then you can pretty much guarantee she was doing nothing more than admiring your male beauty from afar, but has no intention to get down to next base.
6) is a near 99% that she will NOT just flip and one day see you in a better light. Exceptions may be if she is someone who will be more open to you during her most fertile 5 days in a month, and you just so happened to approach when she wasn't in that cycle.
As for 1) to 5), they are more positive signs, but don't expect more than 50% to be open to next base. The majority will still prefer to be with a man much less physically attractive for a boyfriend.
Ok, thanks Vinay, I barely saw you responded, I’ll do as you said, thanks again. Have a nice weekReplyDelete
Pleasure Adrian, and good luck.Delete